Taiwanese-English, English-Taiwanese dictionaries posted

Maryknoll Language Service Center has put online the complete texts of its Taiwanese-English and English-Taiwanese dictionaries. Better still, these have been released under a Creative Commons license. These are a terrific resource for anyone who’s interested in Hoklo.

Maryknoll deserves praise for this great work. Thanks are due, too, to Tailingua, which I know has been working behind the scenes to help make this happen.

From the English Amoy Dictionary (???????):
screenshot from the English-Taiwanese dictionary

And from the Taiwanese-English Dictionary (??????):
screenshot from the dictionary

source: Maryknoll dictionaries now free to download, Tailingua, June 17, 2010

Ma administration still undecided on how to teach Taiwanese

Under the new administration of President Ma Ying-jeou, Taiwan’s Ministry of Education has worked out its plan for teaching pretty much everything … except for Hoklo (the language better known in these parts as “Taiwanese”). There have been a lot of arguments. How early to start teaching the language? How much should be taught? Use romanization? Use zhuyin? May teachers use any kind of soap or only special kinds when washing out the mouths of students speaking the language? (OK, they don’t do that last one anymore.)

So the ministry has decided to appoint a new committee to review such questions. Decisions on these issues are expected in six months or so.

My guess would be that the ministry is going to pack the new committee with conservatives who will see to it that romanization is avoided or at least belittled, that little of the language will actually be taught, and that students will not be tested seriously on the subject. But I’ll be happy if I’m wrong.

sources:

Mandarin newspaper with Pinyin

Victor Mair’s latest post at Language Log introduces a new U.S.-based newspaper, the Huayu Xuebao (Mandarin Learning Newspaper, ????), which is similar to Taiwan’s Guoyu Ribao (Mandarin Daily News), the main difference being the former uses Hanyu Pinyin while the latter uses zhuyin fuhao (bopo mofo).

Well, actually the Huayu Xuebao doesn’t use proper Pinyin (see recent remarks). But I’m so happy to see this long-needed paper that I’ll hold my tongue for now.

Unfortunately, the paper doesn’t have its Web site ready yet — not that the long-established Guoyu Ribao is much better at that, at least when it comes to texts as they appear in the newspaper. So, for more information about the Huayu Xuebao, write learningnewspaper [AT] yahoo.com or phone +1-201-288-9188 (New Jersey).

There’s also a sample issue.

source: How to learn to read Chinese, Language Log, May 25, 2008

video of Pinyin’s ‘father,’ Zhou Youguang, in English

Roddy of Chinese Forums, Signese, Dreams of White Tiles, and even more sites, found a new video (4 min. 40 sec.) of Zhou Youguang speaking, in English, to a reporter from the Guardian.

I was kind of surprised to see this featured on the Guardian’s front page under the ‘Father of Pinyin’ title – I’d wager 9/10ths upwards of the Guardian’s readership doesn’t know what pinyin is. Somewhat unforgivably they’ve managed to spell the guy’s name wrong and not bothered to add tones to the pinyin used in the video, and the interview is pretty weak – basically it’s ‘here’s a nice old Chinese guy talking for a few minutes’ but there’s really very little of depth. They’ve also opted to add subtitles to what sounds to me like perfectly comprehensible English.

But enough negativity, if you want to get a look at the guy who rescued you from bopomofo, have a look.

As happy as I am about the video, I’m going to add a bit more negativity. Failure to get the word parsing correct is also a major error: not “pin yin zhi fu” but “P?ny?n zh? fù.” Actually, even that isn’t so good, because Pinyin is meant for modern baihua, not the style of Literary Sinitic and its many short forms. Thus, “P?ny?n de fùqin” would be better.

The accompanying article is amazingly sloppy in parts.

Although the article manages to spell Zhou Youguang’s name correctly, it consistently refers to him not by his family name but by his given name, “Youguang.” It’s almost inconceivable that any reporter in China could (repeatedly) make such an elementary mistake; so perhaps this is the fault of an overzealous copy editor.

I’m not going to sort out and list what’s correct and what’s incorrect in the rest of the article, other than mention one point at the end.

Confusingly, Taiwan uses several different romanisation methods — including a variant of pinyin, tongyong pinyin — and zuiyin.

Zuiyin? Of course what is meant is zhuyin (zhùy?n/??/??), which is spelled correctly earlier in the article. Zuiyin (zuìy?n/??) is a noun meaning “cause of a crime.”

sources:

Taiwanese, eh?

I’m so far behind on posts that when Taffy of Tailingua sent this to me people in Taipei probably really were wearing short sleeves. They’re certainly not wearing so little now, with the cold, damp, miserable weather we’ve been having lately. Oh well, at least it’s better than what so many people have been having to endure in China. I hope Pinyin News readers there are keeping warm and didn’t get stuck in some transportation-related hell.
photo discussed in this post -- large blue text against a white background, Ma and Siew shown from the waist up with their arms crossed; a blue bird on the left
This poster on the back of a bus is for Taiwan’s presidential campaign.

It reads:

Táiw?n ei lìliang
Shìjiè d? t?nggu?n

M? Y?ngji? — Xi?o Wàncháng

.

?????
?????

??? ???

It’s hard to put this into English that makes sense. Perhaps “Taiwan shows its power to the world.” The idea is something like “Taiwan can overcome all obstacles.” It doesn’t strike me as a good slogan. But maybe I’m missing something.

The interesting part is that it has Taiwanese written with zhuyin (bopomofo): ? (ei). But the ? is basically just for show, since it doesn’t serve any linguistic purpose that the expected Chinese character — ? (de), indicating the possessive — wouldn’t provide. The sign is still in Mandarin. (D? t?nggu?n, for example, is not a Taiwanese expression, according to several native speakers I questioned about this.)

For those who don’t know, M? Y?ngji? and Xi?o Wàncháng comprise the KMT’s ticket for next month’s presidential election.

Both Ma and Xiao use unusual spellings for the way they write their names in the Roman alphabet: Ma Ying-jeou and Vincent Siew, respectively.

The “Ying-jeou” of Ma’s name gives the appearance of Gwoyeu Romatzyh. But in that system his name would be “Maa Ing-jeou.”

“Siew” for Hanyu Pinyin’s Xi?o indicates that the source is likely a language other than Mandarin. But Taiwanese isn’t it, though Siew, unlike Ma, was born here. Because of that spelling, many foreigners in Taiwan pronounce his family name like the English word “shoe.” “Vincent” is of course an “English name” rather than a romanization of his birth name.

As I’m fond of pointing out, perhaps the only prominent Taiwan politician whose name is recognizably Hanyu Pinyin and only Hanyu Pinyin is President Chen Shui-bian, the man most responsible for seeing that Taiwan did not adopt Hanyu Pinyin during his tenure.

interviews with Y.R. Chao

I’ve just stumbled across a book-length series of interviews with Y.R. Chao (Zhao Yuanren / Zhào Yuánrèn / ??? / ???). Even better: The complete text is available for free on the Web!

China Scholars Series: Chinese linguist, phonologist, composer and author, Yuen Ren Chao. An Interview Conducted by Rosemany Levenson, with an introduction by Mary Haas.

Wow. This is absolutely fabulous. The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley, deserves praise for this. Other works of interest to readers of Pinyin News are also available; but more about those later, in separate posts.

In case any readers are not familiar with Chao (1892-1982), he was the finest linguist ever to come out of China. He was also a supporter of romanization; he was even the lead creator of an ingenious if somewhat complicated romanization system for Mandarin: Gwoyeu Romatzyh. But there’s no way a few short sentences could do justice to the depth and breadth of Chao’s learning. To get a better idea of the man, read the introduction to the work linked to above — and then read the rest!

Enjoy!

Further reading: Y.R. Chao’s translation into Gwoyeu Romatzyh of the Humpty Dumpty section of Through the Looking-Glass, with Hanyu Pinyin and English

A nose for foreign food?

Imagine some white guys in a fairly large U.S. city open a restaurant named “Mr. Taiwan Slant-Eyes Asian Cuisine.” And imagine that this restaurant specializes in distinctly Americanized dishes such as egg foo yong, fortune cookies, and California wraps. Now imagine the response. Isn’t this fun?

OK, now imagine a different situation: In Taiwan’s fifth-largest city some locals open a place specializing in Taiwanized Western food and dub their restaurant “Miss UK Cafe Pointy-Nose Foreign Food.”

As you’ve probably guessed, the second scenario is real. The “Miss UK Cafe ??? ????” (Miss UK Cafe a-tok-a yìguó m?ishí) recently opened not far from my apartment in Banqiao.

A-tok-a (???) is Taiwanese for “pointy nose” (i.e., Westerner), though perhaps the common translation of “big nose” conveys the spirit a little better. As Tempo Gain explains in the Forumosa thread on this word, “the initial ‘a’ often preceds names, and the final ‘a’ often is attached to nouns like the Mandarin ‘zi’ haizi, chezi, etc.”

Although most foreigners I know in Taiwan find the use of a-tok-a offensive to some degree, reactions are usually tempered by the knowledge that the word is very seldom used intentionally as a pejorative. It’s just the word most Hoklo speakers would use for “Westerner,” and they mean nothing bad by this and perhaps even see it as “cute” in a favorable way. So since I’m certain the restaurateurs didn’t intend any insult in choosing this name, I’m not going to carp about this any more than I already have — which is not to say that I will ever buy anything from that restaurant.

It’s still an interesting name, though. (Actually, this is probably two names: the standard one (??? ????), which is for most people, and the English one (Miss UK Cafe), which is probably there in an attempt to look modern/foreign/cool.)

For those keeping count, that’s three scripts and as many languages on just one sign.

  • Miss UK Cafe: English, in the Roman alphabet
  • ???: Taiwanese, in a mixed script of zhuyin (?) and Chinese characters
  • ????: Mandarin, in Chinese characters

The mixing of scripts in “???” is representative of the sad fact that most people in Taiwan are unsure how to write Taiwanese. Here are some of the ways this word gets written, along with the number of Google results and Baidu results for that exact phrase.

  • ??? Google 555 / Baidu doesn’t recognize the ?
  • ??? 3,440 / Baidu 1,320
  • ??? 6,730/ Baidu 13,400
  • ??? 11,300 / Baidu 2,810
  • ??? 12,500 / Baidu 24,700
  • ??? 12,500 / Baidu 24,700 (Google and Baidu apparently refuse to differentiate ? and ?)

Also interesting is the use of yìguó (??) instead of the more common wàiguó (??), for “foreign.”

  • “??” Google 1,510,000 / Baidu 14,700,000
  • “??” Google 6,420,000 / Baidu 46,500,000

Yìguó m?ishí, however, is more common than wàiguó m?ishí.

  • “????” Google 41,100 / Baidu 26,400
  • “????” Google 114,000 / Baidu 152,000

This, I suspect, is because yìguó m?ishí “sounds fancier” because of how relatively common the word waiguo is.

photo of the storefront of the restaurant discussed in this post

further reading:

Mandarin teaching in Thailand: Taiwanese teachers choosing Hanyu Pinyin

The following quote sums up a recent article on Taiwanese who are teaching Mandarin at universities in Thailand:

jiùsuàn y?u l?osh? c?iyòng ??? ji?oxué, zuìzh?ng háishi huígu? dào Hàny? P?ny?n, zhìyú T?ngyòng P?ny?n, g?nb?n méiy?u rén sh?yòng.

(Even if some teachers employ bopo mofo in [the early stages of] their teaching, they still ultimately revert to Hanyu Pinyin. As for Tongyong Pinyin, essentially no one uses it.)

In the penultimate paragraph, a teacher takes what for traditional Chinese education is often seen as a radical position: content over form.

“W?men k?y? yòng Hàny? P?ny?n, yòng fánt?zì qù tu?xíng Táiw?n wénhuà, zhè shì bu ch?ngt? de. W? yòng ji?nt?zì ji?ng Táiw?n, dàji? d?u rènshi Táiw?n le, w?men yòng Hàny? P?ny?n jièshào Táiw?n, dàji? d?u rènshi Táiw?n le.”

(“We can use Hanyu Pinyin and traditional Chinese characters to promote Taiwan culture; these are not conflicting. I use simplified Chinese characters to talk about Taiwan; everyone learned about Taiwan. We use Hanyu Pinyin to introduce Taiwan; everyone learned about Taiwan.”)

In the final paragraph, the reporter editorializes along the same lines. (Editorializing in news articles is a common practice here.) It’s perhaps worthy of note that this comes from what was until recently a KMT-run television network — one that remains very “blue.”

Here’s the whole article:

Táiw?n nèibù, j?h? m?igé y?zhènzi, jiùyào ch?xiàn gu?nyú “wénzì” de yìshi xíng tài zh?ngzhí, b?okuò ji?nt?zì fánt?zì, b?okuò T?ngyòng P?ny?n y? Hàny? P?ny?n. H?oxiàng yòng hé dàlù bù y?yàng de xìt?ng, jiùshì ài Táiw?n, jiùshì t?xi?n Táiw?n zh?t? yìshi.

Rán’ér, zhè duì ài Táiw?n zh?n de y?u b?ngzhù ma? Duì qiánghuà Táiw?n zh?t? yìshi zh?n de y?u b?ngzhù ma?

Zhè shì zài Tàiguó dàxué l?, xuéshengmen shàng Zh?ngwén kè de qíngkuàng. Su?rán méiy?u t?ngy? de jiàocái, dàn dàdu?shù de l?osh? sh?yòng de háishi ji?nt? Zh?ngwén b?nb?n, ji?o de y?shì Hàny? P?ny?n.

Rajamangala K?jì Dàxué Zh?ngwén kèchéng zh?rèn Fú Cuì-lán l?osh? jiù zhíyán, wèile zài Tàiguó tu?dòng Huáy? kèchéng, t? duì Huáy? l?osh? de y?oqiú zh?y?u y? ge, jiùshì sh?yòng ji?nt? Zh?ngwén: “Xiànzài w?men y? shu?dào Hàny?, t?men jiù shu? bù xué, juéde Hàny? h?n nán, w? yào jiéshù zhèige gàiniàn, b?ng t? mànmàn de xuéxí, ràng t? zh?dao Hàny? bù shì h?n nán de, k?y? xué de.”

Shìshíshàng duì dàdu?shù de Tàiguó xuésheng láishu?, xuéxí Zh?ngwén de dònglì shì y?nwèi Zh?ngwén zhújiàn biànchéng qiángshì y?yán, g?ut?ng duì t?men ér yán zuì zhòngyào. Xiàof?ng de k?oliáng bù nán l?ji?.

Zhìyú p?ny?n f?ngshì jiù gèng bùyòng shu? le, jiùsuàn y?u l?osh? c?iyòng ??? ji?oxué, zuìzh?ng háishi huígu? dào Hàny? P?ny?n, zhìyú T?ngyòng P?ny?n, g?nb?n méiy?u rén sh?yòng.

W?lái’?l?ngg?ng huángji? dàxué (ed.: Walailak University) de Zh?ngwén l?osh? Liú Y?-píng shu?ch? t? de k?oliáng: “Zh?qián méiy?u xi?n ji?o ???, t?men zhíji? ji?chù Hàny? P?ny?n, jiù huì bèi Y?ngwén de niàn f? wùd?o, su?y? hòulái zh?yào líng chéngdu, w? jiù huì xi?n ji?o ???, b? f?y?n w?nzhù, w?nzhù zh?hòu jiù zhu?n guòlai ji?o Hàny? P?ny?n, bìjìng Hàn p?n zh?n de shì xiànzài ?u-M?i guóji?, b?jiào p?biàn de g?ngjù.”

Lìngy? wèi yóu Tái-Sh?-Dà péixùn qiánw?ng Tàiguó ji?o Zh?ngwén de l?osh? Lín Hóng-zhèng y? zh?ch?, g?ng dào Tàiguó shí, y?u x?du? Zh?ngwén l?osh? duìyú g?i sh?yòng Hàny? P?ny?n háishi T?ngyòng P?ny?n ér zh?ngzhá, dàji? zuìhòu d?u xu?nzé le Hàny? P?ny?n. Bìjìng guójì dà huánjìng sh?yòng de shì Hàny? P?ny?n, t?men bùnéng ràng Tàiguó xuésheng xuéxí y? tào bùnéng yòng de p?ny?n xìt?ng. Lín Hóng-zhèng y? rènwéi, sh?yòng n? y? tào xìt?ng, qíshí g?nb?n bìngbù zhòngyào: “Yòng Hàny? P?ny?n jiùshì hóngmàozi jiùshì róng gòng, zhè g?nb?n méiy?u gu?nxi. W?men k?y? yòng Hàny? P?ny?n, yòng fánt?zì qù tu?xíng Táiw?n wénhuà, zhè shìbu ch?ngt? de. W? yòng ji?nt?zì ji?ng Táiw?n, dàji? d?u rènshi Táiw?n le, w?men yòng Hàny? P?ny?n jièshào Táiw?n, dàji? d?u rènshi Táiw?n le.”

Cóng Tàiguó tu?dòng Huáy? kèchéng de j?ngyàn lái kàn, guónèi jìnxíng Hàny? P?ny?n T?ngyòng P?ny?n zh?lèi de zh?ngbiàn, qíshí xi?ngd?ng k?xiào. Yóuqí xiàng Táiw?n zhèyàng y? ge xi?o d?oguó, zhèngf? l?oshi xi?ngzhe zhèngmíng, xi?ngzhe yào y? Zh?ngguó dàlù q?gé de xìt?ng, bùguò ràng zìj? de guójì k?ngji?n gèngwéi xiá’ài. Z?nyàng cáinéng ràng Táiw?n z?u ch?qu, nándào zhèxi? y? qít? guóji? hùdòng de j?ngyàn, hái bù zúy? g?i di?n j?ngxùn ma?

source: Cóng Tàiguó tu?dòng Huáy? kèchéng kàn guónèi Huáy? yìshi xíng tài zh? zh?ng (????????????????????), ????? (BCC), March 3, 2007