Taichung/Taizhong busstop names

Dan of Jidanni.org has come up with a list of Taizhong’s busstops in the mixed style of Hanyu Pinyin and English that has become standard in Taiwan and is becoming so in China.

I hear that this list may actually be implemented! If so, that would be much to Taizhong’s credit, as local governments elsewhere in Taiwan are often not so responsive.

Here are the lists:

Good work, Dan!

Just out of curiousity, I removed the English and numerals from the list and then compared how it would be written in Hanyu Pinyin (the international standard) vs. Tongyong Pinyin (Taiwan’s international embarassment). This revealed that 337 of 633 entries would be written differently in Hanyu Pinyin and Tongyong Pinyin, giving a difference rate of 53.2 percent.

Kaohsiung’s signage in English and romanization

Chih-Hao Tsai has a good post (in Mandarin) on the English and romanization in Kaohsiung’s signage: Gāoxióng Shì de Yīngwén lùbiāo — kǎoyàn nǐ de yǎnlì. He notes especially how the text in Latin letters is too small. The post also links to some of his other many writings on the topic.

I’ve had related conversations with officials in the Banqiao City Government and Taipei County Government. Upon hearing my complaints that new signs’ English and romanization are ridiculously small, the officials invariably answer me with something like, “It can’t be too small because we’re following the rules.”

Meanwhile, cities around Taiwan continue to waste taxpayer money putting up signs that don’t help.

new MRT signage

David has posted on the inconsistent use of Tongyong Pinyin in the Taipei-area MRT system. I’ve already put a comment there, so I’ll not duplicate everything here.

I spend a lot of time complaining about signage, and my experiences in trying to get some errors in the MRT system corrected have, predictably, been frustrasting. But there is something I do really like: the font for the MRT signage. (See the photos with David’s post.) Does anyone recognize it?

For those of you not in Taiwan, the MRT is the Metropolitan Rapid Transit system for the Taipei area. Most of the system takes the form of a subway. One line, however, is elevated, as is a section of a different line (which also runs on ground level for several miles).

Ma Ying-jeou speaks of Taipei County adopting Hanyu Pinyin

In another sign that Tongyong Pinyin’s days in Taipei County are numbered (not that Tongyong was ever used here much in the first place), Taipei Mayor (and KMT Chairman) Ma Ying-jeou said this on Tuesday:

mùqián Táiběi Shì yǔ Táiběi Xiàn lù míngzi de pīnfǎ bùyī, Táiběi Shì cǎi Hànyǔ Pīnyīn, Táiběi Xiàn cǎi Tōngyòng Pīnyīn, wèilái kěyǐ tǒngyī yòng Hànyǔ Pīnyīn (目前台北市與台北縣路名的拼法不一,北市採「漢語拼音」,北縣採「通用拼音」,未來可以統一用「漢語拼音」)

Although he didn’t state specifically that Taipei County most definitely will use Hanyu Pinyin (which wouldn’t be his announcement to make), he certainly seems to back that happening. Of course, that’s no big surprise; but I like to chronicle such things anyway.

source: Mǎ Yīngjiǔ: Táiběi Xiàn-Shì hézuò; Yīngwén lù míngzi kěyǐ cǎi Hànyǔ Pīnyīn (馬英九:台北縣市合作 英文路名可採漢語拼音), CNA, April 18, 2006

paper on Tongyong and Hanyu Pinyin in Taiwan

One-Soon Her (何萬順 / Hé Wànshùn), a professor in the Graduate Institute of Linguistics at Taiwan’s National Chengchi University (Guólì Zhèngzhì Dàxué), published a paper last month on Taiwan’s romanization issue in one of Academia Sinica’s journals: 「Quánqiúhuà」yǔ「zài dì huà」: cóng xīn jīngjì de jiǎodù kàn Táiwān de pīnyīn wèntí (Between Globalization and Indigenization: On Taiwan’s Pinyin Issue from the Perspectives of the New Economy).

Here’s the English abstract:

The only remaining controversy in Taiwan’s efforts to standardize its pinyin system for Chinese is whether to adopt Tongyong or Hanyu; while the former has an intense symbolic value of indigenization, the latter enjoys a substantial globalized distribution. This paper first makes clear the nature of ‘interface’ of any pinyin system and examines this seemingly domestic issue from the perspectives of the New Economy in the global Information Age. Given the characteristics of ‘increasing returns’ and ‘path-dependence’, Hanyu Pinyin, with its universal standardization and dominant global market share, is the obvious choice. Taiwan’s implementation of Tongyong Pinyin must necessarily incur the cost of dual interfaces. Given the 85% overlap between the two systems, Tongyong, as a politically meaningful symbol, ironically, creates a division among Taiwan’s population. The unfortunate politicization of the pinyin issue has cornered the nation into a dilemma: Tongyong costs economically, Hanyu costs politically. The ultimate reconciliation thus hinges upon the implementation of a system that optimizes Tongyong’s indigenized symbolic value and Hanyu’s globalized substance, to the furthest extent possible.

I disagree with the 85 percent figure; but the number doesn’t matter much in Her’s approach, which, considering he’s a linguist, is surprisingly non-linguistic. He gives two main recommendations for Taiwan’s central government, meant to be taken together. The first of these is that Taiwan should make Tongyong Pinyin the nation’s sole romanization system for Mandarin, with compliance among cities and counties mandatory. The delightfully arch second requirement, however, has an interesting twist: Everything that’s different between the national standard (i.e., Tongyong Pinyin) and the international standard (i.e., Hanyu Pinyin) should be changed to conform to the international standard. In other words, Taiwan should have Hanyu Pinyin in all but name.

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????100%??????????15%???????????????

I’d be OK with that. But I doubt Tongyong supporters will be willing to go along.

Many thanks to Dan Jacobson for the link.

Here are the essay’s subject headings:

  1. Qiányán: zài Tōngyòng yǔ Hànyǔ zhījiān
  2. pīnyīn xìtǒng de jièmiàn gōngnéng
  3. xīn jīngjì de xiànshí tèzhì
    1. lùjìng qǔjué
    2. wǎnglù xiàoyìng
    3. suǒdìng xiàoyìng
  4. jiànpán jièmiàn de lèibǐ
    1. dúbà quánqiú de QWERTY jiànpán
    2. Dvorak de jìngzhēng shībài
    3. jiànpán shìchǎng de jīngjì jiàoxun
    4. jiànpán jièmiàn yǔ pīnyīn jièmiàn de lèibǐ
    5. Tōngyòng Pīnyīn de「zài」zhuǎnhuàn dàijià
    6. pīnyīn yǐ shì zuórì de páijú yóu xì
  5. Yīngyǔ pīnyīn de lèibǐ
  6. pīnyīn lùnzhèng de qīzhébākòu
    1. 「biāozhǔnhuà」yǔ「lǒngduàn」de hùnxiáo
    2. Tōngyòng yǔ jiāo luó de zhēngyì
    3. Tōngyòng de fēi jīngjì lùnzhèng
    4. Tōngyòng Pīnyīn de fēnliè xiàoyìng
    5. Tōngyòng zhuǎnhuàn Hànyǔ de máodùn
    6. Tōngyòng yǔ Hànyǔ「xiāngróng」de máodùn
    7. pīnyīn dà héjiě de kěnéng fāngxiàng
  7. jiélùn:néng hézuò,guójiā rénmín cáinéng zhìfù
  8. cānkǎo shūmù(Zhōngwén shūmù àn bǐhuà páixù)

In case anyone’s wondering about the references to QWERTY and Dvorak, Her is drawing an analogy, saying the situation with Hanyu is largely the same as with QWERTY: whatever the merits of other systems, it’s very likely to remain the standard.

signage with tone marks

This morning I spotted something rare: official, government signage with tone marks. As a matter of fact, I can’t recall ever seeing this before in Taiwan. (It’s not so rare in China.)

There were three signs together, posted horizontally above the southeastern-bound lanes of a highway running through Zhonghe, near Taipei.

They read as follows:

新店
Sindiàn
秀朗橋
Siòulǎng Bridge
景平路
Jǐngpíng Rd.

Please note several points:

  • These are in Tongyong Pinyin rather than Hanyu Pinyin (in which they would be written Xiùlǎng Qiáo, Xīndiàn, and Jǐngpíng Lù, respectively.
  • They are written in a mix of romanization and English, which is typical in Taiwan. Although I don’t favor this style, it is so pervasive here that changing it is a relatively low priority compared with other romanization problems.
  • The use of tone marks differs in Tongyong Pinyin and Hanyu Pinyin, with first tone not being marked in Tongyong.

I suspect these signs are one-offs, not, um, signs of things to come. But I’ll keep my eyes open.

The tone marks on the signs were done poorly, with the marks being too small and placed far above the relevent vowels. The letter i, for example, should lose its dot when it takes a tone mark.



(I’ve adjusted the second image to move the signs closer together.)

I apologize for the poor quality of the photos. They were taken through the dirty windshield of a speeding bus.

Li Ao on Tongyong Pinyin

Li Ao, a marginal Taiwan politician famous for his tireless mouth, penchant for off-the-cuff weirdness, and love of pissing people off, has been in China recently. At least at first, Beijing treated him like a visting dignitary of the highest order. But that cooled a little after he started talking.

Anyway, while there he touched briefly on the issue of Taiwan’s Tongyong Pinyin system.

Táiwān kǒukoushēngshēng shuō yào zǒuxiàng shìjiè, zěnme zǒu chūqu, biéren de xuélì nǐ dōu bù chéngrèn, zhè jiùshì Táiwān de bēi’āi. Xiànzài dàlù de Hànyǔ Pīnyīn shì Liánhéguó tōngguò zài yòng de, dàn Táiwān yòu zìjǐ gǎo le ge Tōngyòng Pīnyīn, shéi yàolǐ nǐ? Méi rén lǐ nǐ.

台湾口口声声说要走向世界,怎么走出去,别人的学历你都不承认,这就是台湾的悲哀。现在大陆的汉语拼音是联合国通过在用的,但台湾又自己搞了个通用拼音,谁要理你?没人理你。

He also had praise for Hu Shih, whose important accomplishments have been given short shrift in China since 1949.

I certainly wouldn’t call myself a fan of Li Ao, but I’m quite in agreement with both of these points.

source

Taiwan citizenship and Mandarin

Today’s Taipei Times has the following note:

Citizenship changes proceed

Foreign nationals seeking Taiwanese citizenship will be required to have a basic grasp of Mandarin and an understanding of the rights and responsibilities of being a Taiwanese citizen if an amendment to the Nationality Law (國籍法 guójí fǎ) is passed. The amendment was approved by the legislature’s Home and Nations Committee yesterday and sent for further screening to a legislative plenary session. According to the amendment, the Ministry of the Interior will set the standards regarding basic language ability and knowledge of citizen rights and responsibilities. The ministry will also be responsible for testing applicants. Vice Minister of the Interior Chien Tai-lang (簡太郎) said that the amendment is aimed at bringing naturalization laws in line with those of such English-speaking countries as the US, Canada and New Zealand.

According to an official U.S. government Web site on U.S. citizenship and immigration services, “To be eligible for naturalization, you must be able to read, write, and speak basic English.” (Emphasis mine.)

The few Web pages I’ve scanned about Canadian citizenship are not as specific about the language requirement. I get the impression, though, that being able to read and write French or English is not required as long as speaking ability exists. I didn’t see anything specific about the English-language requirement for New Zealand, either.

Official talk of a language requirement for ROC (Taiwan) citizenship surfaced about a year ago. At the time, I called the Ministry of the Interior to inquire about the situation. If applicants for citizenship are required to be able to read and write Mandarin in Chinese characters, this would be a substantial barrier to naturalization — much more so than being able to read or write a language that is written in an alphabetic script.

I was told that reading and writing Chinese characters would not be required. I hope that is still the intention of the government.

I also inquired whether languages of Taiwan other than Mandarin would be acceptable, and I was told they would be. Thus, someone able to speak Taiwanese (Hokkien, Minnan, Holo…), Hakka, or, rather less likely, one of the languages of Taiwan’s tribes, would be able to meet the language requirement without knowledge of Mandarin. I hope that this, too, is still the intention of the government.

I suspect some of the ambiguity may lie in how Guóyǔ (國語) is translated. Most of the time the word refers to Mandarin. Recently, however, the government has occasionally chosen to translate Guóyǔ not as “national language” (i.e. Mandarin) but “national languages” (i.e. the more than one dozen languages of Taiwan: Mandarin, Taiwanese, Hakka, and the languages of Taiwan’s tribes).