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	<title>Comments for Pinyin news</title>
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	<link>http://pinyin.info/news</link>
	<description>news and discussions related to romanization</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 00:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on foregoing fours forestalls misfortune: government in action by Bill Poser</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/foregoing-fours-forestalls-misfortune-government-in-action/#comment-489138</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Poser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 03:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/?p=1049#comment-489138</guid>
		<description>Lest we think that superstition only leads to government action in East Asia, in 2003 the number of the highway that leads from  Monticello, Utah to Gallup, New Mexico, long designated route 666, was officially renumbered 491 due to the complaints of Christians who believe that 666 is the Number of the Beast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lest we think that superstition only leads to government action in East Asia, in 2003 the number of the highway that leads from  Monticello, Utah to Gallup, New Mexico, long designated route 666, was officially renumbered 491 due to the complaints of Christians who believe that 666 is the Number of the Beast.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Park Street redux by Mark</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/park-street-redux/#comment-488890</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 16:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/?p=1242#comment-488890</guid>
		<description>Right then some poor foreigner might be trying to find "Yuanqu St.", or "Yuancyu St." or "Park St.", or anything else. If they have no knowledge of Chinese how are they to know they are all the same 園區街?
When I　first arrived in Taipei, I took the bus to Xindian, imagine my confusion when I arrived in Sindian, I though I must have taken the wrong bus.

Did the letter arrive?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right then some poor foreigner might be trying to find &#8220;Yuanqu St.&#8221;, or &#8220;Yuancyu St.&#8221; or &#8220;Park St.&#8221;, or anything else. If they have no knowledge of Chinese how are they to know they are all the same 園區街?<br />
When I　first arrived in Taipei, I took the bus to Xindian, imagine my confusion when I arrived in Sindian, I though I must have taken the wrong bus.</p>
<p>Did the letter arrive?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Taiwan Google searches: Hanyu Pinyin vs. Tongyong Pinyin by BUDAI, Andrew E.</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/taiwan-google-searches-hanyu-pinyin-vs-tongyong-pinyin/#comment-488822</link>
		<dc:creator>BUDAI, Andrew E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/?p=1150#comment-488822</guid>
		<description>I have been teaching English in Taiwan for many years, thus I know that languages are not logical.  However, there are some aspects to consider when choosing between Hanyu and Tongyong.

My main argument for Hanyu is that it is used and taught in schools throughout Mainland China, the United States and Canada, not to mention most European schools that teach Mandarin. 

The Tongyong pinyin is regional, it is based on a hard-to-understand Wade-Giles system, its use is limited mainly to Taiwan, therefore it is not practical, and there is no hope that it will ever replace the far more wide-spread Hanyu pinyin. 

Academia Sinica took a stand years ago and favored Tongyong, but their reasoning was political: "If it serves Communist China, we don't want it".  Not exactly a scientific stand. I do hope that soon common sense will prevail even in the Taiwanese bureaucratic circles.

B., Andrew 
Xinzhu City (a.k.a. Hsinzhu, Xinchu, Shinchu and Hsinchu)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been teaching English in Taiwan for many years, thus I know that languages are not logical.  However, there are some aspects to consider when choosing between Hanyu and Tongyong.</p>
<p>My main argument for Hanyu is that it is used and taught in schools throughout Mainland China, the United States and Canada, not to mention most European schools that teach Mandarin. </p>
<p>The Tongyong pinyin is regional, it is based on a hard-to-understand Wade-Giles system, its use is limited mainly to Taiwan, therefore it is not practical, and there is no hope that it will ever replace the far more wide-spread Hanyu pinyin. </p>
<p>Academia Sinica took a stand years ago and favored Tongyong, but their reasoning was political: &#8220;If it serves Communist China, we don&#8217;t want it&#8221;.  Not exactly a scientific stand. I do hope that soon common sense will prevail even in the Taiwanese bureaucratic circles.</p>
<p>B., Andrew<br />
Xinzhu City (a.k.a. Hsinzhu, Xinchu, Shinchu and Hsinchu)</p>
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		<title>Comment on updating Karlgren: a forthcoming reference book by site admin</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/updating-karlgren-a-forthcoming-reference-book/#comment-485948</link>
		<dc:creator>site admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 02:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/?p=1222#comment-485948</guid>
		<description>Thanks. It's fixed now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks. It&#8217;s fixed now.</p>
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		<title>Comment on updating Karlgren: a forthcoming reference book by Zev Handel</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/updating-karlgren-a-forthcoming-reference-book/#comment-485786</link>
		<dc:creator>Zev Handel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/?p=1222#comment-485786</guid>
		<description>Minor correction: The author's first name is Axel, not Alex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Minor correction: The author&#8217;s first name is Axel, not Alex.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Park Street redux by site admin</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/park-street-redux/#comment-485489</link>
		<dc:creator>site admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/?p=1242#comment-485489</guid>
		<description>@Mark: There is no official "English translation" for Yuanqu Jie, unless the Taipei City Government has passed some new rule about this, which I doubt (because that would involve work on their part). 

Taipei has only one street I can recall that has a real English translation: Civic Boulevard (Shìmín Dàdào). "Roosevelt Road," on the other hand, is an English name with a Mandarin translation.

I tried to locate "Park Street" in the &lt;a href="http://www.post.gov.tw/post/internet/u_english/postal_e_1.jsp" rel="nofollow"&gt;postal system's zip code finder&lt;/a&gt;, which offers both "Romanized Phonetic System (Tongyong Pin Yin)" and  "The United National Mandarin Phonetic System (Han Yu Pin Yin)." No luck. But Yuanqu/Yuancyu Street is there. 
 
Yours is a good idea: to test whether something addressed to someone on Park Street would arrive. Since I work in a building there, I'm going to give that a try.

The people working for the &lt;span style="text-decoration: line-through;"&gt;Chunghwa&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span style="text-decoration: line-through;"&gt;Taiwan&lt;/span&gt; Chunghwa Post have a lot of practice dealing with confusing addresses, since Taiwan's SNAFU romanization situation has not yet resolved itself at the level of people's Rolodexes, business cards, etc. So my letter to myself might have a chance of getting through, even without a postal code or other such useful information. I'll let everyone know what happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mark: There is no official &#8220;English translation&#8221; for Yuanqu Jie, unless the Taipei City Government has passed some new rule about this, which I doubt (because that would involve work on their part). </p>
<p>Taipei has only one street I can recall that has a real English translation: Civic Boulevard (Shìmín Dàdào). &#8220;Roosevelt Road,&#8221; on the other hand, is an English name with a Mandarin translation.</p>
<p>I tried to locate &#8220;Park Street&#8221; in the <a href="http://www.post.gov.tw/post/internet/u_english/postal_e_1.jsp" rel="nofollow">postal system&#8217;s zip code finder</a>, which offers both &#8220;Romanized Phonetic System (Tongyong Pin Yin)&#8221; and  &#8220;The United National Mandarin Phonetic System (Han Yu Pin Yin).&#8221; No luck. But Yuanqu/Yuancyu Street is there. </p>
<p>Yours is a good idea: to test whether something addressed to someone on Park Street would arrive. Since I work in a building there, I&#8217;m going to give that a try.</p>
<p>The people working for the <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Chunghwa</span> <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Taiwan</span> Chunghwa Post have a lot of practice dealing with confusing addresses, since Taiwan&#8217;s SNAFU romanization situation has not yet resolved itself at the level of people&#8217;s Rolodexes, business cards, etc. So my letter to myself might have a chance of getting through, even without a postal code or other such useful information. I&#8217;ll let everyone know what happens.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Park Street redux by Mark</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/park-street-redux/#comment-485317</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/?p=1242#comment-485317</guid>
		<description>What is the official "English translation" held by the post office, if I mailed at letter to "Park St." would it ever arrive?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the official &#8220;English translation&#8221; held by the post office, if I mailed at letter to &#8220;Park St.&#8221; would it ever arrive?</p>
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		<title>Comment on US post-secondary enrollments in foreign languages and the position of Mandarin by Louis Janus</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/us-post-secondary-enrollments-in-foreign-languages-and-the-position-of-mandarin/#comment-485296</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis Janus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/?p=998#comment-485296</guid>
		<description>Great report! As coordinator of the LCTL project, I get lots of questions on enrollments and trends. Our database on were LCTLs are taught in North American k-12, colleges/universities, distance ed, and summer courses, is the most visited part of the very popular CARLA website.

Louis Janus, LCTL project / CARLA.

PS my project also sponsors a number of listservs for teachers of LCTLs: http://www.carla.umn.edu/lctl/resources/listservs.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great report! As coordinator of the LCTL project, I get lots of questions on enrollments and trends. Our database on were LCTLs are taught in North American k-12, colleges/universities, distance ed, and summer courses, is the most visited part of the very popular CARLA website.</p>
<p>Louis Janus, LCTL project / CARLA.</p>
<p>PS my project also sponsors a number of listservs for teachers of LCTLs: <a href="http://www.carla.umn.edu/lctl/resources/listservs.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.carla.umn.edu/lctl/resources/listservs.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on US post-secondary enrollments in foreign languages and the position of Mandarin by Frank Rizzo</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/us-post-secondary-enrollments-in-foreign-languages-and-the-position-of-mandarin/#comment-484045</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Rizzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/?p=998#comment-484045</guid>
		<description>I recently completed Mandarin 3 at a community college in California. I was the only non-heritage student in a class of about 25. There were quite a few native speakers taking it for the easy A as well.

I agree the pedagogy needs a lot of improvement. In my classes there was way too much emphasis on writing characters. And I mean physically writing, not typing. They should teach how to use a pinyin IME (trivial) and be done with it. People who want to write characters because they look cool can take a calligraphy class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently completed Mandarin 3 at a community college in California. I was the only non-heritage student in a class of about 25. There were quite a few native speakers taking it for the easy A as well.</p>
<p>I agree the pedagogy needs a lot of improvement. In my classes there was way too much emphasis on writing characters. And I mean physically writing, not typing. They should teach how to use a pinyin IME (trivial) and be done with it. People who want to write characters because they look cool can take a calligraphy class.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pinyin in/as art by site admin</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/pinyin-inas-art/#comment-483767</link>
		<dc:creator>site admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/2008/pinyin-inas-art/#comment-483767</guid>
		<description>No-sword has an interesting example of kana in a logo: &lt;a href="http://no-sword.jp/blog/2008/08/lion_adventure.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Lion adventure&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No-sword has an interesting example of kana in a logo: <a href="http://no-sword.jp/blog/2008/08/lion_adventure.html" rel="nofollow">Lion adventure</a>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on US post-secondary enrollments in foreign languages and the position of Mandarin by US post-secondary enrollments in foreign languages and the position of Mandarin</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/us-post-secondary-enrollments-in-foreign-languages-and-the-position-of-mandarin/#comment-483659</link>
		<dc:creator>US post-secondary enrollments in foreign languages and the position of Mandarin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 06:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/?p=998#comment-483659</guid>
		<description>[...] American Sign Language just doesn’t seem to get the same sort of respect, despite the fact that it still has more than 50 percent more enrollments than Mandarin. Arabic, which has also had a much faster growth rate than that of Mandarin, hasn’t received the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] American Sign Language just doesn’t seem to get the same sort of respect, despite the fact that it still has more than 50 percent more enrollments than Mandarin. Arabic, which has also had a much faster growth rate than that of Mandarin, hasn’t received the [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on US post-secondary enrollments in foreign languages and the position of Mandarin by Links 25 August 2008 - David on Formosa</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/us-post-secondary-enrollments-in-foreign-languages-and-the-position-of-mandarin/#comment-483541</link>
		<dc:creator>Links 25 August 2008 - David on Formosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 23:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/?p=998#comment-483541</guid>
		<description>[...] Pinyin News has a couple of interesting posts about the numbers of people learning Mandarin in UK degree programs and  post-secondary schools in the USA. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pinyin News has a couple of interesting posts about the numbers of people learning Mandarin in UK degree programs and  post-secondary schools in the USA. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on critique of proposed guidelines for writing Taiwan place names by caffeind</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/critique-of-proposed-guidelines-for-writing-taiwan-place-names/#comment-483183</link>
		<dc:creator>caffeind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 08:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/2008/critique-of-proposed-guidelines-for-writing-taiwan-place-names/#comment-483183</guid>
		<description>0. Insisting on no marking of syllables inside words serves no purpose other than making romanized Chinese words look like Western-language words. It increases uniformity, decreases comprehensibility, and tells English-speakers to treat some syllables as unstressed and reduce them, e.g. "Tian-uh-men".

2. Apostrophe has other uses such as representing a glottal stop or a schwa.

3. Hyphen for joining two elements cannot lead to incorrect syllable breaking, since it is already between syllables; therefore also using it for indicating a spelling is two syllables instead of one causes no harm.

If we really want to increase comprehensibility of abbreviations, we should introduce more and clearer punctuation conventions for them, e.g. [Su-Hua] Expressway or Su/Hua Expressway.

5. Agree with the other commenters. Is "Taroko" a Japanese simplification of the real name? Also, 5. is directly contradictory to 7.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>0. Insisting on no marking of syllables inside words serves no purpose other than making romanized Chinese words look like Western-language words. It increases uniformity, decreases comprehensibility, and tells English-speakers to treat some syllables as unstressed and reduce them, e.g. &#8220;Tian-uh-men&#8221;.</p>
<p>2. Apostrophe has other uses such as representing a glottal stop or a schwa.</p>
<p>3. Hyphen for joining two elements cannot lead to incorrect syllable breaking, since it is already between syllables; therefore also using it for indicating a spelling is two syllables instead of one causes no harm.</p>
<p>If we really want to increase comprehensibility of abbreviations, we should introduce more and clearer punctuation conventions for them, e.g. [Su-Hua] Expressway or Su/Hua Expressway.</p>
<p>5. Agree with the other commenters. Is &#8220;Taroko&#8221; a Japanese simplification of the real name? Also, 5. is directly contradictory to 7.</p>
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		<title>Comment on US post-secondary enrollments in foreign languages and the position of Mandarin by Update: The Number of Post-Secondary Enrollees in Chinese Language Programs &#171; The Lingua Franca</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/us-post-secondary-enrollments-in-foreign-languages-and-the-position-of-mandarin/#comment-482966</link>
		<dc:creator>Update: The Number of Post-Secondary Enrollees in Chinese Language Programs &#171; The Lingua Franca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/?p=998#comment-482966</guid>
		<description>[...] August 24, 2008 &#183; No Comments  Pinyin News recently posted a comprehensive analysis of the number of students enrolled in Mandarin language programs here: US post-secondary enrollments in foreign languages and the position of Mandarin. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] August 24, 2008 &middot; No Comments  Pinyin News recently posted a comprehensive analysis of the number of students enrolled in Mandarin language programs here: US post-secondary enrollments in foreign languages and the position of Mandarin. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on 85 percent of Han in China have two-syllable given names: report by dda</title>
		<link>http://pinyin.info/news/2008/85-percent-of-han-in-china-have-two-syllable-given-names-report/#comment-482856</link>
		<dc:creator>dda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 11:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pinyin.info/news/?p=1033#comment-482856</guid>
		<description>This practice of a "generation character" was very much in use in Korea until recently -- less so now but still happens. It's called a 돌림字, tollim cha, in Korean. In some families, like the 閔 family (all Koreans with that family names are from one of the two branches of the Min family), you can have people with the same generation character and have a great difference in age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This practice of a &#8220;generation character&#8221; was very much in use in Korea until recently &#8212; less so now but still happens. It&#8217;s called a 돌림字, tollim cha, in Korean. In some families, like the 閔 family (all Koreans with that family names are from one of the two branches of the Min family), you can have people with the same generation character and have a great difference in age.</p>
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